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Michelle Liljedahl

May 2, 2016 By William Smith

In today’s show, Meghan talks with Michelle Liljedahl, the Director of Shared Service Marketing at Audigy Group and Stratus Dental. Get to know Michelle, her family back home in Korea, as well as some pro-golf tips!

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Alright guys, this does feel a little bit weird because I pretty much spend every waking moment with this person. I’m interviewing my friend, my office-mate and co-worker, Michelle Liljedahl today– a recent new last name, so I’m still working through– still working through that. But Michelle’s technical title is the director of marketing shared services. Is that right? Or is it longer? I know you have super long title.

Michelle Liljedahl on Intersections podcast

No, that’s right. Good job!

Thank you. And what does that encompass? Can you tell us a little bit about what the director of marketing shared services does?

Sure. So as a lot of people know, there’s a director of marketing, and that’s Lindsey Ash. And she oversees a lot of our marketing managers who are member-facing. So my role is more for managing the teams that are in charge of execution, so the marketing coordinators and digital specialists. So making sure that our website SEO traditional marketing efforts are really aligned and that we are executing effectively.

Gotcha. OK. How many people are on your team?

Well, we also do a little bit with Stratus as well. So the teams that oversee Audigy oversee Stratus in marketing shared services. So I would say there’s about 15 to 20, without actually counting on my fingers exactly how many.

OK. And you’ve been in this role for how long?

I’ve been in this current role a year and a half.

And prior to this, what did you?

Two years. I don’t know. Time flies.

OK. So, like, anyone who’s listening to this– and I do know this being friends with Michelle– not good with numbers. Very– very bad with numbers. If you see her try to calculate a tip in a restaurant, you’re just like, just give up. I will take care of this.

So true. So true.

But very smart otherwise.

Eh, yeah. Yeah.

OK. So you’ve been in this role for like–

Two years. Two years. I’m pretty sure. I just counted on my fingers. It’s been two years.

Prior to that, how long have you been with Audigy?

I’ve been Audigy for almost five and 1/2 years.

OK. And prior to Audigy, what did you do?

So my first job out of college was actually working at Nike for their golf department. And I helped support the outside sales team. So making sure inventory was in stock and ordering for them and doing a lot of outside events to promote Nike– which, I mean, they don’t need a ton of promoting. But it was really fun. And then I moved out to Philadelphia and I worked for a fitness company.

And the really cool thing about that fitness company is that they were kind of the same business model that we have here at Audigy. So they worked with a lot of third-party people or directly with other businesses. So we essentially would make deals with these big-time gyms like 24-Hour Fitness, Lifetime Fitness, and then we would work with corporations and resell memberships back to them, but at a cheaper cost. So it was a benefit that they could give their employees.

But it was a lot of client relationships and marketing, things like that. So the same kind of area, a similar business model. And that was something that I thought was really cool when I joined Audigy. That’s pretty rare that you have a company that’s modeled how we are.

Yeah. This is something I actually didn’t know about you.

Whoa.

I’m learning something–

Look at this!

–through this. When Will first asked Michelle and I to do this podcast, I was like, what can I possibly ask her that I don’t already know. It turns out that there was one thing.

Whoa, yeah.

OK. So you started at Audigy and the business model was semi-similar to something that you had done in the past. So that wasn’t like this weird shocking adjustment for you. What did you do? What were you hired to do? Was it something in marketing also?

Yeah. So actually I interviewed with our old vice president of marketing. And when I told him that the business I was at prior to Audigy, that they had a similar business model, he told me I was incorrect and there was no way that that could be accurate. And I was like, no really it is.

But essentially I came to Audigy to do what I did at my previous company, and that was to manage programs. So the first programs that I was tasked with managing were our position outreach programs, which at that time was the postcard kind of thing that went out to the different lists, and then the better hearing plan, which was the corporate plan that we had in place so that companies could offer that as a benefit to their employees.

Gotcha. So you did that for how long?

Six months.

You did that for six months. And then you either didn’t do that well or you did that really well and moved into something else. What happened there?

It was actually really interesting. That same VP at the time asked me, where do you see the value in this program? Do we need a full-time employee dedicated to this? And although I saw a lot of value in position outreach, obviously, and that better hearing plan, I thought there was something that could kind of run seamlessly on its own with marketing manager support.

So I told him that I didn’t know necessarily that is where I belonged. And at the time he actually needed a project manager. So I interviewed for that and got that and moved into that role.

And that’s really, I think where, knowing you the way that I do, I feel like that’s where you thrive. Michelle and I, we work really closely together and one of the things I think that is funny about our relationship is we often have meetings with many other people.

Michelle’s super process-oriented and I am not. So oftentimes when we’re planning through something and there is four or five people in a room and Michelle and I are talking about process, it seems like we’re fighting. And people will get–

Uncomfortable.

Yeah. People will get uncomfortable and you can tell that the mood in the room or kind of the tone in the room changes. And then we’re like, oh, we’re actually– we’re fine.

We’re just talking.

Yeah, we’re not fighting. This is actually very normal.

Yeah.

So in that way I think we complement each other very nice.

Absolutely.

I can see how you are. I can see why someone would see that project management skill set in you and want to tap into that.

Thank you.

Yeah, I’ll compliment you on that. So I think, maybe we’ll do a little bit of a different format then we have in these past shows, just because I do know so much about you and there’s some really interesting things that I think our listeners would be really interested in.

That’s kind of you to say.

Yeah. So Michelle is one of nine children. Is that right?

All girls.

Yeah. Can you tell us a little bit about your biological family?

Oh, sure, sure. So I actually have a seven older sisters who live in Anseong, South Korea, who I just met in September– which you know. Which you know.

Because I went there with you.

But it’s really cool story. Me and my little sister– she’s 28– we were adopted by an American family and lived in the Vancouver, Portland area our whole entire lives. And then last July we were contacted by or adoption agency, saying that our birth family was trying to make contact with us. And at that time we had no idea what that meant, if it was just a birth mom or birth dad. But we soon found out that it was seven older sisters.

And you thought all your life that you were the only children.

Yeah.

Is that correct?

Yeah.

So that was– that was pretty crazy. And they sent you a photo.

Yeah.

First, right. I think that came with the– did that come with the letter?

Yeah, it did.

And everybody looked just like you.

Yeah. Yeah. There were definite– it was very clear that we were family. Yeah.

Which was awesome. And then what happened? So then you digested that for a little bit– had a phone call, right. First contact– no, no, no. You did Facebook stalking.

Yeah. I did some Facebook stalking. I used my skills and everything that I’ve learned about social media and got onto Facebook and just started looking and searching for my sister on Facebook, because she had signed her name to the letter and I found her. So I made contact with her and we started talking through Facebook’s Messenger app.

But talking was difficult because–

I don’t speak Korean. It’s crazy. When I was adopted at three months old, I didn’t learn Korean. So there was a little bit of a language barrier. But the cool thing is, over there a very young age in grade school they do basic English. So most of them spoke a little bit of English, which made it possible for us to communicate a little bit. And then Google Translate–

Yeah, you guys got really good at Google Translate.

Yeah. Yeah.

But Google Translate would translate some things really funny. And there’s probably not a lot that we can share here. But some of our English words do not mean the same when they’re translated.

No.

So there was a period of time where Michelle was sending some very mixed messages to her Korean sisters and getting some really bizarre responses from them. And then we looked up what she was actually saying, and we were like, oh.

Yeah. Yeah. There’s definitely some words that don’t translate well, or just things that they say that we wouldn’t say. So for instance, to cheer somebody on they say fighting. So fighting– that’s what they always say. And so if I was like, oh, I’m having a bad day. They’d be like, fighting. And I was like, well, no. No.

I’m not fighting.

I’m not fighting anybody. It’s fine. But it’s a weird, like, cheering you on. Like, you can do it. So yeah, a little bit of a language barrier.

OK. So let’s look back up a little bit. So you contacted Munson? Right? And she is the sister who is born just previous to you?

Yeah

OK. So they’ve labeled all the sisters. Michelle’s number eight. Munsan is number seven, right?

Yeah.

So you contacted number seven and started talking with number seven, and then got in contact with one through six also, through seven.

Oh yeah.

Right?

Everybody.

And then they all wanted to you to meet and come to Korea, right?

Yes. Yeah.

So you were like, OK? I’m going to do this, right?

Yeah, I was, which, looking back on it, that’s kind of a scary thing. But I don’t know, instantly I just felt like there was a lot of trust and we bonded and connected right away. So it didn’t seem scary at the time.

Right. Yes.

And I took you with me.

Yes. And I got to go, which was really, really awesome. I think I was like the tallest person that they had ever seen in person. I was constantly like bumping my head on ceilings or light fixtures.

Yeah. Megan’s his nickname in Korea was Hollywood.

Because they thought I was just like so incredibly tall.

I think there was a reference to Julia Roberts too, and Anne Hathaway. Yeah. Yeah.

Yeah, perhaps. And one of the funny experiences that we had there was, the Koreans are so incredibly kind in terms of sharing. Like anything that they have, they will share with you. And this extends into food. All meals are served family-style. And they, in my opinion, and I think Michelle shares this– they eat very, very little. Well, I mean, I don’t know.

Yeah, yeah. No.

OK. OK. So that’s fair to say.

They do but they don’t. Yeah. Yeah.

So the first shared meal that we had I think in our restaurant maybe– and it was a breakfast. We sat down to this table and it was like super informal. And they put one bagel. And there were like nine of us. And they put one bagel in the middle of the table and started to cut it up into pieces. And Michelle is whispering to me, “that’s not enough.”

And I am starving. This cannot be breakfast. We’re going to have to go sneak off and buy some food.

Because they can’t understand English. And so very vocally, Michelle is like, this is not enough. We need to do something about– like, I don’t know what to do. This is not going to work.

Yeah, panic.

It turns out that there were other pastries and bagels and things like that were coming, but they would never just have a single– you would never just order one thing in a restaurant and expect that to just be yours. The culture, which is really beautiful, is anything that I have I will share with you.

And you don’t just have your own individual meals the way that we do here. And that was obviously clear after more food came after the bagel. But there was this moment of like, why even bother? Like, I don’t even think this is something that is going– it’s going to be more of like torture then an meal.

Yeah. Yeah.

Is there anything else that was particularly interesting about that trip?

Oh, man, that trip was fun.

Can we share the last Night Please?

You love this story.

We can edit it out if you decide that you don’t like it.

OK.

But we’ll at least let Will hear it.

OK so —

The last night in Korea.

So they ran us ragged when we were in Korea. It was so much fun but it was completely exhausting. They joke that Koreans don’t sleep, and that is semi-true, we learned. So it was probably around midnight and we were leaving one of our sister’s places to head back home, because we were staying with our other sister, Hansun..And Hansun says to me, mom’s going to come spend the night.

Keep in mind that there’s a major language barrier. So what she’s saying, you’re kind of getting the gist of it. But you’re like, I don’t know if what she’s saying is actually exactly what’s going to happen. Because we speak no Korean and she speaks just–

Basic.

Yeah, very basic English. So you kind of have to– you know a little bit about what they’re saying but you’re not totally sure that you’re getting the entire message until thing actually happens.

Right. Right.

OK, sorry. Keep going.

Megan’s just so excited right now because–

Because this is this best story. I laughed so hard after this happened that my face hurt for days because it was one of the funniest– OK, keep going.

So she’s like, mom’s going to come sleep at my house. She wants to sleep with you. And I’m like, oh, OK. All right, that’s cool. And at the time, Megan and I were sharing a bed. And it was fine. And my sister had moved out to the couch with her husband. So we go back to the house and we’re all just sitting around and chit chatting.

And all of a sudden I see my sister’s husband moving my stuff from the room Megan and I were sleeping in to the other room. And I’m like, huh, that’s interesting. And then I see a pillow go. And I’m like, oh, no. Oh, no. And I’m like, so what’s going on for tonight? What are our sleeping arrangements? She’s like, well, Megan’s going to be lonely, because you’re going to sleep with mom.

And I was like, huh. Well, that’s uncomfortable. But I’m like, I can’t hurt these people’s feelings. I’ve just met them. You know, obviously this is something that this woman wants to do. And I’m like, well, she doesn’t want to sleep with me because, what if I snore? You know? Like, I could snore and then I would like keep her up all night. And she was like, oh, no, no, no. That won’t bother her. I’m like, OK. Well, I’m going to have to come up with something else.

So we’re still talking. And then all of sudden I’m like, you know, I don’t think we sleep in the same bad because I might move around a lot and I don’t want to keep her up all night. She looks at me and she says, oh, it’s OK, she will hold you tight and tighter. And I’m like, oh my gosh. So I’m like–

And meanwhile I’m in the same room when this is– there are four people. I’m in the room. Michelle is like desperately trying to make eye contact with me. I turned my chair completely around the other way because I’m like, I cannot help. I don’t know what to say. And I know if I make eye contact with her, I’m going to bust out laughing.

So I’m like, um, well– OK, well, we need to go get ready for bed. So Megan and I go back in the room to get ready for bed and wash our face and what not. And I look at Megan and I’m just like, I can’t do this. I can’t. And Megan looks me right in the eye, smiles, shrugs her shoulders and says, sorry but, you just have to. You’re going to have to do this. And I was like, no. And I think we sat in there for a good five minutes just staring at each other like, what are we going to do?

Because you’re going to cuddled all night.

Which was not– this was not sounding good at all. And it was our last night. We were so tired. And I knew we had a long flight home. So finally I said to Megan, you know what, I guess these people don’t like me. So I guess they don’t like me.

So I went and got my sister and I told her, I was like, look, you know, I just don’t feel comfortable with this. And then of course, I say, in America, this is kind of weird. We don’t typically cuddle with people who are like our significant other. And she like, oh, OK. And then she stops. And she’s like, but Megan and you have been sharing a bed.

And I was like, yeah, yes we have. And there was no way around that. I was just like, yeah. But I was like, I’m sorry, I just can’t. And she’s like, OK. And I felt bad. I felt like my birth mom really wanted that. But we sat around talked, and then 15 minutes later my birth mom stands up. She’s like, OK. And she says in Korean, I’m going home.

She thinks it would be more comfortable to go home. And so she just goes home. It was like she was not even necessarily wanting– she that maybe you wanted that, right?

She thought I wanted that and needed that. So it turns out this woman didn’t even want to cuddle me.

She just felt like she had to.

She just felt like had to. So that kind of took the wind out of my sails. I was like, oh, OK. She doesn’t even want to. So that’s less satisfying.

Oh. And then we just went to bed.

Yeah.

It was a really, really fun– it was really fun trip, and just a really great experience all around. And it’s one of those things that– my husband is adopted and I’ve met his biological family also. And it was just a really great experience.

And to see that happen a second time– to see someone reunited with their biological family and all of the emotions and it being this really great, powerful thing was just a really cool– it was just a really awesome experience for me to have to, just kind of riding along. I could have done a documentary. I guess I don’t why I didn’t video more than I–

It was hard. We were just so busy running around. But it was an awesome trip and super emotional, but super exciting. I think Megan cried as much as– we all did.

Any time they were crying, I’m would just like, burst into tears also. Which they were like, what is up with your massive friend who’s constantly crying? Eh, I’m emotional.

Oh, it was awesome. And then they came out here in December. They’re just such good people. They treated us with so much kindness and hospitality.

And obviously that is the relationship that will continue on. That’s the really cool thing. This wasn’t like a one time thing. It’s definitely something that you’ll continue to cultivate.

Right. Yeah. We talk all the time. They’re great. Good people.

OK. So, Michelle, we know a little bit about your personal life– quite a bit about a specific area of your personal life and your family. Can you tell us a little bit about– we talked a little bit about when you first started at Audigy and your progression into your current role.

What got you into marketing? Can you tell us a little bit about school? When you first declared a major, was it a marketing advertising major? And I actually don’t know this about you either. What did you go to school for?

I found marketing just by chance. I had some really cool people that I worked with out in Philadelphia who got me really interested in it and passionate about it. But it wasn’t what I actually studied in college. I went to Concordia University and I studied psychology.

And the whole point was that eventually I would go to grad school. And that was the track that I wanted to be on. But after four years, I was just burnout and needed a little bit of break. And that’s when I went out to Philadelphia and found that marketing company and really fell in love with it.

OK. So do we know anybody else at Audigy who went to Concordia?

I know Mark Drahn went to Concordia.

Probably didn’t graduate with you though?

No, no. Yeah.

OK. You mentioned a little bit earlier that your first two jobs out of school were sports-focused, right? You had the Nike golf job, which I know that you’re really good at golfing. Which, I think I told you this before so it’s fine to tell you this now that it’s being recorded.

The first time Michelle and I ever went golfing together– because I was on the golf team in school too. But I was not good. I was on the golf team specifically so I could get out of school and go do something that took a long time. It takes a long time to play 18 holes of golf. So I was like, awesome, I can leave school for like five hours, and go place on a golf course for free. I will definitely do this. So I guess I assumed that Michelle was the same. And she invited me to go golfing and we went golfing.

And I was like, she’s like, good. She’s actually good at this. And I was mad the whole time. I was like, a huge baby about this. I was like, you should have told me that you were this good at this. I would never have come with you. So anyway, I do know that you’re good at golf and you must of practiced somewhere. But I don’t know if you played– did you play golf in school?

Yeah. So my dad’s a golf coach and he actually got me into it. And I played just a little bit, not very seriously growing up. And then in high school I played. And once I graduated my dad had said that Concordia was starting a new golf program. And he was really pushing me to go. And I was like, oh, no, no, no. I’m good. I don’t want to do that.

And luckily my dad encouraged me to go to Concordia. And I was able to get a scholarship, which obviously is great for student loans and whatnot. And it ended up being a great experience. I met a lot of great friends through the golf program. And we were able to build it out. It was the first year that they had it. So it was cool to see it grow and evolve. And now they have a great golf program over there for men’s and women’s. So it’s pretty cool.

What’s your favorite golf course that you’ve ever played?

That’s a good question.

Don’t think about it for too long. What’s one that you can think of, that just comes to mind.

I like the Reserve. But I also like the less stuffy courses, the ones where you can just go out and have fun and people aren’t taking it too seriously. So I play out at the Cedars a lot. It’s just a local course. That’s kind of the course I grew up on. And then Heron Lakes in Portland.

Do you take a cart or carry your bag?

You know, I think because I always had to carry a bag growing up– you can’t take carts, obviously when you’re playing in school and for tournaments. I’m kind of anti-walking now. So it’s almost like in spite, I take a cart. But it’s good exercise to walk. I dont’ know why I don’t do it more.

Yeah. Yeah. Maybe I’ll go with you if we can walk the course next time.

OK. Good exercise.

If you could give it two pieces of golfing advice to someone who has never golfed before, what would those two pieces of advice be?

I would probably say, the first thing is, don’t try and go and crush the ball. I feel like so many people go out there and try and hit the crap out of the ball. Oh, I said crap. So many people go out there and try and hit the ball so hard.

And the first part is just getting the basics and mechanics down. And sometimes that’s even taking a half swing, not even taking a full swing until you can get a good rhythm. And then the other part is short game. Short game is everything. That’s where you cut down on strokes and you can really get your game running really lean.

So when you’re talking about short game, are you talking about anything that’s taking place on the green or just anything that is right near it? What’s that area called?

I would say anything around the green. Anything from 100 yards in.

So let’s end this by talking about your perfect today. If money were no object and you woke up tomorrow morning and you could do whatever you wanted to do with that day, with that being the only guidelines I’m going to give you. You can do whatever you want. What would you do? Or what would that day look like, I guess?

The perfect day for me probably would be with family and friends, somewhere sunny, definitely not in this Portland rain. So I would say somewhere kind of sunny and tropical, just relaxing with no agenda. That sounds like the perfect day to me.

What do you eat? I know that you– another thing about Michelle is if you go to a restaurant with her, she has to have seen the menu online at least two hours in advance of going to the restaurant and look through absolutely everything. So you don’t even need to get– if you’re me and you go to a restaurant, you’re just like, what do they have here? And before you got to a restaurant, or before you get the menu, Michelle will be like, oh they have, like– and then recite the entire menu to you.

That’s true. Well that’s exactly why I can’t tell you what I would eat. Yeah. I mean, that would be a very tough decision.

You haven’t seen a menu.

Yeah. Yeah. You know how much I like food. It would take awhile for me to decide on something like that.

OK. You don’t have to be specific, but what type of food would you eat?

Probably seafood. Especially if you were somewhere nice and warm, kind of tropical. Some seafood, yeah.

Some seafood. OK. Would you play golf?

I’d play some golf.

Would you take a nap?

Yeah, I would take a nap. I think that would actually be one of the– on the beach though. A little power nap on the beach.

OK. What time would you wake up?

Probably like, [8:30].

And then what time would you go to bed?

Probably like [10:15].

There’s Michelle’s perfect day. Wake up at [8:30], eat a little seafood on a warm day and go to bed at [10:15].

And a nap. Don’t forget the 30-minute power nap

Gotcha. OK. Thanks for joining us.

Yeah. Thank you.

Social Media Insights from Keith Kunis

January 19, 2016 By William Smith

In today’s episode, Daniel Parscale talks with Keith Kunis, Group Manager of Community Insights at Swift. Keith shares tips for managing your daily social media programs (evergreen content) vs campaigns, as well as explains why you, as the business owner, should really be leaning on your social media team!

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How are you doing today, Keith?

I’m doing fantastic. How are you today, Dan?

I’m good. Thank you. I really appreciate you coming in for the show today. I’ve been looking forward to having you on for a long time because you have a really interesting and unique background in terms of marketing, that’s both DIY and kind of major player style, right?

Yeah, definitely. I do a hobby social channel that’s like a sports satire channel. And my daily job is at a big agency and we have a lot of Fortune 500 companies.

Well, so, what I’ve got you here today to talk about is– I want to talk about social media because we want to really dive into defining these things and getting an idea for people who are listening. Like, how are they supposed to understand this and then how are they supposed to go about figuring out how they’re going to use it?

Because a lot of people, I would guess, are thinking about social media and the first thing that comes to mind is, I’ve got to get a Facebook page. I’ve got to post pictures of kittens and puppies and then everybody’s going to like it and I’m going to make a billion dollars. But it’s a little bit more complex than that, right?

Yeah, that’s one way to do it. Some people have made millions of dollars off the posting kittens and puppies. And you know what, it worked perfectly because they had a really tight brand. And that was a big part of it. I mean, everyone posts those images. But yeah, there are ways to actually make money doing that. But for most people that’s not going to work.

Well, you and I can talk about our new business scheme for doing just that after this show.

Perfect.

Because I don’t want to give away our trade secrets.

Podcast puppies and kittens coming soon.

Yeah, we’re going to launch that one next. OK, so let’s talk about like the real basics. So we’re going to talk about social media in terms of marketing. What are some of the general techniques that we’re going to be looking at with this? And by the way, maybe we should first talk about what actual social media platforms we’re going to be talking about so that people are aware of everything. We already mentioned Facebook. I don’t think that needs too much of an introduction. What are some of the others platforms that you would consider are important for this?

I mean, it really depends on the brand and who the business is and where they’re going to be and exists within social. A lot of brands right now are really hot on Snapchat and they want to be a part of that. Some of the drawbacks to that are that there is not a lot in the analytics. And they also don’t work with brands super well right now only because there trying to stay super organic and friendly to the user. But they are making concessions and they’re getting brands in there which is great.

We’ve done some really fun shoots at Swift for Snapchat. And they’ve come out fantastic. I can’t believe what you can do with a cellphone these days. Agencies are so used to doing these really, really polished imagery for Instagram, Facebook, Twitter, and those channels, but what we’re doing with mobile phones on Snapchat is amazing, because it is still a very raw format– social channel.

Beyond that, we’ve talked about Facebook. There’s Twitter. If you’re not looking into them, you might want to start looking into them– they might not make sense for you, but messaging apps are really, really big right now, especially with millennials and a younger audience. We’re talking about WeChat, Line, things just like that. They’re great little apps that are taking social to a whole another level. It’s very private but brands are starting to get into them as well. So they’re definitely something to look at.

With Facebook and Twitter, those are the parents of social. They still have huge audiences. Twitter has a huge audience. It doesn’t have the most active audience. Facebook, everybody thought was going away, but it’s definitely still here. And your audience might be there. And if that’s where your audience is, I never tell a company to shy away from Facebook. Because if you have paid media and you’re on Facebook, you’re going to hit a lot of people. So the potential there for just link clicks and views and all those different analytics that people love– Facebook is a really good one for that.

Absolutely. Well let’s start with those parent companies a little bit because I think those are going to be the ones that most people might be the most familiar with, at least from experience. What are some of the kinds of general techniques that you would talk about doing? Aside from just posting puppy and kitty pictures, what are some of the things that– like we were talking before the show about what you called evergreen posting and then campaign posting. Maybe you can talk about thinking about how you’re actually developing things from that context.

Evergreen’s really about your day to day social. So when you find out where your fans are and what you’re going to be presenting to them, you might think about the day to day Twitter and Facebook and what you’re going to actually do as far as relationship building with them. And I think that’s a really, really important aspect to all of this, is that for your day to day, your evergreen content, you really need to be thinking about your organic audience.

Typically, you’re not putting any paid media behind your evergreen. So you’re going to be hitting that organic audience– the people who follow you because they love you or because they’re interested in your brand. So that’s what you need to be really thinking about when you’re producing this content.

The difference, or the other aspect of posting on social really comes down to campaign. And those are your big product launches or brand campaigns that you’re trying to get out that might last three to six months, potentially longer, potentially shorter. So a lot of brands that have big product releases throughout the year. Say they’re coming out in June with a brand new product, they might run the campaign a month beforehand to a month after, and then they want to sustain that for a while longer.

Now this is where it gets a little tricky, but your day to day evergreen content can tie into your campaign work, and it should to an extent.

Yeah, you want to have consistency in your messaging.

Absolutely. You want it to exist within the same realm. Not to get all nights and castles with you, but yeah, you want it to exist in the same realm, because the voice of the brand needs to be consistent across the board. Where brands trip up and they get confused and they confuse their audience really is, they’re putting out a campaign that’s about being like really cool and awesome and look at us, we have kittens and puppies everywhere.

But then their day to day content is like, here’s our new products. Here’s what we’re coming out with. This is happening. But what you’re going with a campaign is you’re typically putting media behind that and you’re putting dollars behind it, so you’re hitting new audiences. Those new audiences are going to come back to your channel and they’re going to look at the content that you’re producing daily and they’re going to say, this doesn’t align with what brought me here.

Yeah. Yeah. Because they came for something special.

Yeah. The campaign was cool, but what you’re doing day to day does not intrigue me.

So let’s maybe like come up with either a fictional company or a company that you want to talk about and just like come up with a super basic version of this. Because of what I’m thinking in my head is I’m thinking– you’re a sneaker guy. Let’s talk about some sneakers.

Your evergreen might be just– if you’re a super-small company, it might even just be like, here’s pictures of sneakers. And you’re just posting pictures of sneakers every day and be like, we got this for this lifestyle and here’s how we’re branding it with that. And don’t you like this and share it with your friends or whatever it is.

And then your campaign is going to be like, coming 2016, we’re going to be launching this incredible new sneaker that’s made of solid gold or something and here’s all this other stuff that’s on top of it. It’s in the same voice but it’s a whole differently image and thought process, right?

Sure. So a really good example actually of this, and I tell everyone that they should always go and check out their work is what Nike’s doing. They’re really fantastic on social. They’re so integrated across the board. They have several different channels. All their different product lines and everything have different channels. So there’s Nike running, there’s at Nike, there’s Nike store, et cetera. It keeps going. And a lot of the sneaker brands are actually doing really well right now and they’re looking into getting into this kind of same strategy.

But what they do a lot with their campaign work is, they do a lot of branding in there as well. Like it’s a lot of brand work and describing like who they are as a brand and who the customer is as well, with showcasing the product and the shoes a little bit. But that ties in perfectly with their evergreen, their day to day content, because that right there– like, if you look at Nike running for example, their day to day content is inspirational.

It’s getting people out there to run and be a part of the community. And that’s what they want to do. They want to build these relationships with the community. And they want them all to work together and work with Nike and say, like, yeah, we’re going to do this. We’re going to knock out this 5K. We’re going to go run this half marathon. We’re going to set up all the training systems with you. And they do that sort of stuff in their social day to day. And then they overlay it with a campaign for the new Nike LunarGlide 7.

Is that a real shoe?

Dang, that sounds cool. I got to get that.

Yeah. And what that is, is it’s typically tied to an entire pack that aligns with it, and whether it’s the same shoe or it might be something like their flash pack. So that’s going to be all their nighttime gear. So what they start doing is they start putting out this campaign that showcases the jackets, the shoes, and everything, in these real beautiful ways, but they’re still inspiring and they’re still engaging. And all their day to day content is aligning with it as well.

So we have to have– before even doing this, we’re going way, way back. We’re talking about, we need to have– first of all we have to have channel. In this case we’re talking about Facebook. We have to have that understanding of what your brand is so that you can keep your evergreen, evergreen, right? So it’s consistent across everything.

And then you’re also going to be talking about planning ahead for what is it that you’re planning to do that’s very important to you, your company, so that you can make something that layers on top of that. It’s an extra level of your consistent image, just like hyper-focused on a particular product or event or something special.

And that is across the board, whether you’re a small do it yourself little social channel, versus a giant company. We need to be thinking about all of those things. You’re not necessarily going to be able to do all of those things. Some companies, some businesses, they can’t do the campaign work. They can’t do the digital campaign work. What they might do is try and take their larger campaign, their outdoor campaign work, and how do we bring that into digital? How do we bring that into social? And they might try and fit it in there. It doesn’t always necessarily fit.

What we’re seeing a lot right now in the industry is a lot of people are starting to go digital social first, and then move that into outdoor and above the line work. Because that makes more sense, because digital and social is so much more integrated, and there’s so much more you have to think about when you’re building that strategy around it. And then once you get up to the higher level, to that outdoor, to the television ads even, that can come from digital no problem.

OK, so this makes a lot more sense to me now. But we’re also talking about applying this to all kinds of different businesses. And I kind of what to bring it back to our core of super-small businesses. And I think that your experience with Trillblazin is a great example of that. So maybe you can talk a little bit about how you operate with that? I mean, I know the brand but maybe describe it a little bit and then tell me like, how your marketing. Because you’re very grassroots with your social marketing, or social media on this.

Yeah. So kind of as my hobby offshoot job that I do late at night and on the weekends, I do this thing called Trillblazin, and it’s a social platform that’s really about sports satire, mainly focused on the Trail Blazers. I’m a big Blazers fan, lived in Portland all my life and I loved what some people call the worst era in Blazer history which is the Jail-Blazer era. I grew up with that. I love it. All my favorite players are from that team. So my best friend and I, we started some social channels, Twitter and Instagram, and we just showcased some of our favorite players. And we did really funny copy lines for them. Well, I think they’re really funny. Most people probably don’t.

And we started this because of our love for the Blazers and just for sports and for comedy. And so we got that going. That started on Instagram and we parlayed into Twitter where we found that we could be funny more often because well, we can do as many 140 character tweets as we want. So we focused on both of those channels and growing those channels. And it happened really fast. People like funny content. So we kept growing them.

And we started thinking about like, well, why don’t we do some product for this and make funny street-wear shirts and different products that people would want or wouldn’t even think about in having like a sports satire feel to them. So we built that as a part of the brand. And we kept the same voice that we have in the social channels, we actually brought that voice over into the product as well. So you’ll see things on there, on our shirts that say, Zero Chill or Trillard, and those represent Damian Lillard who is the starting point on the Trail Blazers.

So we’ve been growing this brand for about two years. Really it’s still rooted in social. We live tweet every single Blazer game. We post Instagrams every day still. That’s something that we started doing from the very get go, and we’ve maintained it. And I think that’s actually really important to note is that, when you build your brand, you need to maintain your voice. You need to be consistent throughout, always and forever.

Yeah, in this case it sounds like your voice was actually there before the product was even there, and you kind of made one after the other.

Yeah, absolutely. We went the opposite direction that most businesses or companies go and it worked out really well for us. And in fact, I think a lot of people should do that.

Can you think of anybody that– like an example of a brand that had a fail with their social direction.

I think everybody learns on social. Everyone’s constantly learning. To say you can do without having any mistakes is just a bold faced lie. I think people make mistakes every single day in social and there’s not any one brand that hasn’t made a mistake somewhere. I think some of the bigger ones you see out in the world on blogs and different articles and things are when brands make mistakes of posting to a channel when they should be posting to their personal channel.

That’s a funny mistake which I’ve done once or twice. But luckily, you have the tools, you catch those things early on. I know I personally, for every brand that I help manage, I personally get tweets sent to my phone immediately whenever they post an outbound tweet, so one that’s getting publish out in the world. I get that sent to phone immediately so that I can double-check it and read it and make sure that everything is OK. So that’s definitely a very big problem. I’ve seen really funny ones with people talking about their abs coming from a tech company.

That’s awkward.

That doesn’t make a lot of sense to the audience.

And you can catch it within 30 seconds, but when you’re speaking to millions of people, you can count on that screen shots were taken, even within 30 seconds. So just being really vigilant during those times is really important. We’ve seen some bigger ones that are even worse when people have said things degrading towards other people, or even racism coming out of companies because their social media person was supposed to send it to their personal channel. I mean, even then, they shouldn’t be doing that, but it goes out to the ether, out into the real world, sometimes to millions of people, maybe 100,000 people, maybe only 10,000 people. But it can affect a brand’s image big time if you don’t react accordingly.

If you’re thinking about just like, brands who are doing stuff wrong, I always go back to, again, like, just being in a channel to be there– I think that’s wrong. Just because Snapchat’s really hot right now and people are really digging Snapchat. And just out in the general world they’re digging Snapchat, and companies are like, ah, I got to be there because that’s where all the kids are and the millennials and all the buying power’s there, I got to be there. It doesn’t mean you actually have to be there. I wish certain brands would think about that stuff a lot more– if it makes sense for them to be there or not. If there’s any relevance for them there.

Well, so, we already talked about like, seeking out your demographic and are they actually present there, which makes sense. That’s an obvious one. But there are some other things that you need to take into consideration too. The first thing that comes to mind for a small business for me is resources. How many of these can you actually distribute yourself out over. And then there’s another one too of– we touched base on this with Instagram a second ago, like the capabilities of that particular platform and how does it feed into your goals?

You definitely have to think about the capabilities of a platform and what you can do and everything you just said are some of the biggest things you have to think about. But there’s a lot of brands out there that are not thinking about those things, and they’re just jumping into every single channel. So they have a Twitter. They have a Tumblr. They have an Instagram. They have a Facebook. They have a Snapchat.

I’ve seen brands who state, oh, we’re done with Facebook. We’re not doing that anymore. And then they closed down their Facebook and they go to focus on Twitter and Tumblr or something. Sometimes those brands shut that stuff down premature. And that’s not good. That’s not good for your brand. I mean, they’re just thinking about– what ends up happening a lot is a lot of people read Mashable articles. They read a lot of tech articles and blogs and things about social and marketing articles across the web, and they say, oh, Facebook is not as popular anymore. A lot of people are jumping ship. And they see that article and they react right away.

You got to do some digging. You got to do some research into that and see if it makes sense or not. And you can’t just base that on an article. You have to look at your personal set up, the way that your business is set up on there, and does it make sense for them to be there?

Yeah, demographics on all platforms are changing. Some are growing. Some are shrinking. But what that just means is that that the niches are what you need to really be paying attention to. Like if it’s going to affect your brand and your business, right?

Right. And when we’re talking about something bigger like Facebook, some real facts are that they’re organic reach is not nearly as good as it used to be. So you’re looking at like– I think it’s 2% now, is what it’s down to, it’s organic reach. So you have 100 people following you, two people might engage or see that content.

That’s tough for some people– especially if there’s a small brand and they’re just starting to get on to Facebook, there’s that first climb where you’re really trying to get anybody to like your page too. And to hear that can be really defeating. And that makes sense too. But the object then is like, OK, maybe I’ve got a different goal then just having everybody see what I’m posting out there. Like, what is the value of the content? Or like, what’s my actual direction with this?

Right. No, go ahead.

I was going to say, so what do you think about that perspective? What do you say to somebody who’s going through that consideration of, like, is this really right? Am I getting anything out of this? How do they measure it? Answer all of those questions.

I mean, if we’re talking about measurement and analytics, I mean, that’s a whole beast into itself. Just like big social campaigns and even evergreen have entire teams around it, there’s entire analytics teams based around accounts as well. The best analytics teams out there are doing a combination of qualitative and quantitative research.

So they’re getting and taking in all the information at a native level through Facebook and through Twitter– let’s just use those as examples– and they’re taking all the information that they’re providing, pulling that into an Excel sheet and building out these quantitative stats and figures that really showcase exactly what’s going on in your channels. But then they pair that with the qualitative as well to give context to those numbers. Because really, I mean, it’s not enough just to see the numbers, not in social.

So you need to look at that and then you need to get that context as well. It’s like, OK, but what’s really happening? What’s really working? Because you might have a post that doesn’t do as well as others, but say the goal of that post was to get comments. And so it didn’t have as many likes, it didn’t have as many shares, but you had more comments than you’ve ever had, that post outperformed everything else, you know? It did great. You have to add a weight to your measurement and what you need. And most of that’s goal-based really.

Again, I always make the statement that goals are so important. It’s one of the first things you need to think about. And it’s not just, what channel I need to be in, you need to think about what your goal is of each post and everything you’re doing along the way.

All right, Keith, so we’re at the point of the show where we want to start to wrap things up with your top three take-aways. What are the three things you think are most important for listeners to remember for your interview today?

Have a goal is my number one. I really think it’s important for you to have a goal when you’re choosing what channels you’re going to plan, when you’re choosing what type of content you’re going to do, and really important if you’re going to have a campaign on social.

The second take-away would be, know your audience. And that’s going to tie into actually all the previous things I just mentioned. Because where are you going to actually play? Where’s your campaign going to exist? How are you speak to them day to day?

And then lastly, my big takeaway is, know your brand. Or have the social people understand your brand and know your brand backwards and forwards. In my experience, people who know the brand the most are typically social media managers. And they might be the most underpaid. But they know it better than a lot of people do and that’s because they really become experts.

One of the things I always like to say about social media and in community management in particular, when you’re actually taking care of your community, this organic audience that you’re built on social, is that whoever is the community manager and whoever’s posting and publishing and responding to people, they need to know the brand. They need to know the voice of the brand. So they represent the voice of the brand, and they represent the voice of the community. They know both sides of it. And you’re going to really want to utilize them for insights into your brand.

Keith, this has been a really awesome conversation. I know, as always, we could always go a lot deeper. But I really appreciate you sharing your expertise with us here today. You’ve given a really great picture of social media 101. Yeah. Thank you so much for joining us Reach today.

Thank you.

Branding

November 24, 2015 By William Smith

jess-lund-ali-house-reach

In this episode, Daniel Parscale brings in the creative big guns to discuss brands. Is a brand just a logo? What do you do to build, foster and promote a brand? What happens if you need to re-brand? Jess Lund and Ali House come to the rescue in this fascinating discussion on brands.

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Read the transcript:

Today on Reach we’re going to be talking about branding. My guests are Jess and Ali, and between the two of them, they have more than 13 years of experience. Together, we’ve worked on branding, creative design, and all kinds of marketing.

Hi. My name is Jess Lund. And I am a design manager. My spirit animal is the koala.

Hi. My name is Ali House. I’m a graphic designer. And my spirit animal is the moose.

OK. So thank you, Jess and Ali, for joining me today. How are you doing?

Doing great, thank you!

Doing great.

Cool, thank you. So we’ve got an expansive conversation to be had today about branding, brands, all that kind of stuff. And I started where I imagine both of you did, too, and everyone else on the planet. And I Googled it, and I came up with the definition that Google supplies for branding, which starts off with, “a type of product manufactured by a particular company under a particularly name.” And then it goes on to talk about branded livestock and images and things like that.

So is that where we want to start with this conversation? Is that what a brand is? Is it just a logo? Or what is it? What’s your working definition here?

I’ll step in. To me, I think that’s the general definition. I think when you think in terms of a brand, people tend to go to the mark because that’s one of the most recognizable things. But in terms of the bigger picture of a brand, brand is really, to me, an essence or a persona that a business portrays.

And that goes to the way the in-store atmosphere is. That goes to the way the employees interact with their customers. It comes down, to me, to a feeling or an attitude. It’s like the bigger picture. It’s the soul of that mark, to me.

I totally agree. It’s interesting. I don’t remember ever taking a brand course in college. And so I feel like most of what I’ve learned has been in the industry. We definitely talked about logo marks and the good, the bad, how to go about them, and how to sell them.

But brand– I mean, that’s a whole ‘nother topic. It’s pretty complicated because there are so many layers to it, so many nuances. And when you look online, there’s not a single definition. In fact, you’ll see several different ways of defining a mission statement versus a brand promise.

So in my experience in working with Ali on some branding projects for some of our clients, we had to really define exactly what that meant for us. And you can break it out in, like I said, a variety of ways. But at its core, you can think about what the brand idea is, which is, what is the product? What are you selling the audience? How is it unique from your competition?

There is the mission statement, which you can think of as how you want your audience to perceive your brand and what you do, what you want to embody– what values and attitudes, like Ali said, you want to embody. And then there is the vision. Where do you want to take this brand?

So you can’t think of brand as just here and now and a pretty logo. You have to think about it as this wider experience that happens throughout time. Brands evolve. But I don’t know that people really think about that.

That sounds like a really metaphysical kind of answer, which I love. And it’s interesting because I think that the first thing that comes to mind whenever I think about a brand of any particular company is going to be that visual component. And it sounds like what you both agree on is that while that’s a factor of the brand, it’s more of like a symbol of what the actual brand is. And it’s maybe something bigger than any sum of the part. It’s kind of like an avatar of whatever those things you’re trying to represent are, right?

Yeah. And it’s interesting you bring up that point because if you think about some of the larger successful brands, one in particular being Nike, that’s one–

I’ve heard of them.

That’s good because they’re pretty big.

I mean, people look at that mark. And there is a lot of conversation that happens around that mark. And people say, like, oh, it’s one of the most recognizable marks. And the question is, is it the mark that made Nike so big, or is it everything else behind that mark?

And I think in terms of brand, the mark is just a supporting feature of everything behind that. I mean, your mark could be a circle– literally, a circle. But if you can have all these other things that go behind it with experience and tone of voice– those types of things that people can resonate with– that mark will just elevate everything else behind that brand. And it’s a way for people to attach themselves.

Well, so what can you tell me about the things that you would– Jess, you already touched on this a little bit about what kinds of questions you would ask in order to come up with the brand concept. But what are some of the potential answers there? Like, if I was being asked by you, my creative team, to help me come up with my brand, like, what are some of the things that I should be thinking about in order to really figure out what my brand is before we even get to the part about the logo or how we’re going to represent that visually?

When we start looking at a brand, there are a few approaches that we like to take in exploring what the brand is currently and where the brand wants to be. So some helpful tools are thinking, again, what is your unique positioning within your market? It’s pretty natural for people to want to state what they do in pretty general terms. But there needs to be some real deep investigation into exploration into how your product, your attitude is really different and why your audience should care– how they’re going to connect with that.

So that can be tangible or intangible, too. You used the word attitude. And I think that’s interesting.

Yeah. So that could be your product. But we like to start with, what are some adjectives that describe your brand? Are you caring? Are you sassy? What are you bringing to your persona?

And then how do you speak to what you do? How do you bring that persona to life? And then what’s the walk? How do you back that up with what you do?

Authenticity is incredibly important in brands nowadays, especially because information is at your fingertips. You can find out if your local gas station oil supplier is ruining the world or if the company you love to get coffee from is not paying their taxes like they should at a click of a button. And people don’t like that. Brands create this connection with people and, I would argue, when they’re at their best, communities. And so that authenticity is incredibly important.

So when you’re looking at these things, it’s really helpful to see what’s going on in the marketplace, what your competition is doing, but also what’s going on outside of your market. What are some brands that really resonate with what you’re doing? And it might not be a similar product, but it might be that they have a tone of voice that really resonates with where you want to go. And so looking at what they’re doing right and maybe what you might be able to do better is a great way to start that conversation.

BP Logo Evolution

Since you brought up oil companies right there, that reminds me of a brand that happens to be an oil company, and they failed at exactly what you just talked about. I think it was probably 2009 or something like that when a certain petroleum company rebranded with a– it looked like a flower. You all know which one I am talking about.

And it was obviously an effort to try and green-wash themselves, even though they’re an oil company. And to my mind and my understanding, that kind of backlashed against them. People saw that the headlines were not going to be just washed over by this brand redesign. And because there was that disconnect between what they were and their mark in this case, it didn’t work.

Obviously, they’re still around. But I mean, there was a lot of backlash. And we’re talking about it now, what, five or some odd years after the case.

Right. And that’s why it’s so important to look at if you are doing a refresh, it’s something that can’t just be a logo refresh. It has to be if you’re trying to change perceptions, if you’re trying to improve your credibility, that has to be inside out. So that has to be within the core of your organization and everyone that represents that and what they provide onward out to receive the appropriate perceptions that you’re going for.

I think you see that fail quite a bit. We were talking about Gap earlier. And that was a nice example of trying to create a more contemporary brand that wasn’t an inside-out approach.

GAP Logo Evolution

Maybe we should, for the listeners who might not know what we’re talking about, that we’re talking about their logo redesign. And it went from the one that everybody still knows today– the blue box with– what is it?– just a white serif font.

The serif, yeah

And then it turned into this ugly postmodern ’90s monster– I don’t even know– like this sans-serif font floating in front of its past ideation. Like, I think that lasted five or six days before they pulled it at a huge loss. I’m getting the chills just thinking that logo.

Yeah. Speaking to that particular example, it’s really tricky when it comes to evolving your brand because as Jess spoke, there’s this emotional tie to it. And so for a brand to just overnight, all of a sudden– at least to the general public, overnight, just change its mark, for some people, that’s really scary because it’s like–

Where are they going now?

Right. Exactly. And growing up, I’m sure all of us in this room have our parents or even ourselves have brands that we’re totally attached to, whether it’s through their product or service offerings or just the way they communicate to us. And to all of a sudden see your brand that you’ve been going to for decades, let’s say, to just all of a sudden change their, I guess, aesthetic or their appearance, it’s a shock. And so you have to be careful when it comes to making these evolutions. You really want to do it over small, incremental pieces.

Like Google does with their logo. Like, one pixel a year or something.

I would say that even if you were going to refresh your brand, you’ve got to have in mind, like, the trajectory of how you might change that further down the line, right? So what’s an example of a– we talked about some bad examples. What’s a good example of a brand that has refreshed themselves? And let’s not just talk about the mark here, although I think that’s an important part. But, like, are there any brands that you guys are fans of that have completely changed their user experience and maybe come back from the dead a little bit?

Ooh, come back from the dead– ooh.

And I wouldn’t say necessary this brand came back from the dead. But I would like to think, in terms of a popular major brand, I would say UPS is pretty successful in terms of how they’ve evolved their brand over time. From the mark standpoint, it hasn’t really changed much. The most recognizable mark of that company is their shield. And over time, that shield has just very subtly changed.

But in terms of, I guess, that industry, the– I don’t know what you call that– the delivery industry? I don’t know.

Mail services?

OK. Let’s go with that. Mail services– I mean, with the introduction of the internet and some of those things that definitely upped the game in terms of how you deliver packages and what you can offer, I feel like they’ve done a really good job of being this company that, yes, we can deliver your packages on time. But they’ve started to include logistics and other things that businesses need to be this more well-rounded, I guess, business.

But they’ve stayed true to what their value proposition is, which to me is getting your products to you on time and making sure they arrive in the way that they’re suppose to.

That makes sense. And I’m trying to think in my head, firstly about the logo that they’ve used. And I can’t remember what it used to look like, which I think is actually probably good because we know it’s been updated, and it still looks current. But it’s been continuous in history in some way.

And then like you said, too, like, you’re also keeping consistent their mission, which seems to be to not only provide delivery services but also to deliver peripherals to that that make the experience of having that something delivered to your house better, right?

When you’re talking about rebranding and looking at brands historically, you can always go back to the successes are where they started with a clear defined mission of what they were doing– what they stood for, what their values were– because you always go back to that. When you distill it down, you should be able to use that as a jumping-off point. Throughout time, as you do different marketing campaigns, as you do mark refreshes, you should always be able to go back to that core essence, that soul of your organization.

To piggyback on that, I think somewhere I’ve heard before people say, in one sentence, can you define your brand? And that’s, to Jess’s point, that core statement. That’s the one thing that you should weigh, essentially, all your decisions against for the evolution of that brand.

And when I think, like, for an example, of, like, core mission statements or core statements, I should say, I think about Airbnb is one good example that I can’t think of. And their core statement, in essence, is– and I don’t want this to get confused– but it’s, to be anywhere. And basically what they’re saying is that we’re offering you these really cool places to be in, these really, like, unique places at an affordable price and allow you to be in those places anywhere you want.

We think in terms of hotels and what those things can offer. And you want to go get a hotel room. But it’s so expensive. Or it’s a place that you don’t feel like you can fit in. Well, Airbnb is here to allow you to fit into those places.

That’s a good one. I was thinking how warm that slogan makes me feel right there, right?

So it’s clever, so it’s kind of fun. It definitely makes sense about their global empire or ambitions in that way. I mean, what else does it do that is successful? And actually, another point I want to point into this is it kind of works like a mark or a logo in that way, too, because it’s like, I can totally see that written out anywhere and be like, [SNAPS FINGERS] boom, that’s an Airbnb kind of like concept.

It’s direct.

You want it to be direct. You want it to be easily digestible and memorable.

Yeah. And in that core statement, too, that’s the thing that you basically give to all the people involved in that brand or that business. And it allows them to get in that mindset. When we speak to attitudes about brand, that core statement really sets the tone.

So if you’re Nike and your core statement is to be an athlete, and however that is, if that means with an asterisk to be human, then that allows the people who are going to be working on that brand or even be associated with that brand to really dive into what that means and produce products across the board or marketing across the board that will always be consistent.

Once you’ve figured out your brand, what are you doing with it? I’ve talked a lot about branding advertising, for instance. And there’s other applications, too, like, I mean so many things come to my mind. But let’s just talk through applications of brand once it’s established. What do you do with it?

Your brand can be represented in very physical ways. Your user is going to experience your product and your services in a variety of ways. So it’s really important that your branding is consistent from the time that they step into your store front to when they visit your website to how your employees provide customer service. Everything needs to mirror the mission and the values and the attitude that your brand represents. If you have any disconnect, that’s a point for your consumer to start questioning things.

So, like, the experience that the customer actually has. And that’s what they’re seeing visually, as well as, like, their interactions with the representatives and stuff like that.

Yeah, down to the furniture you have, the signage, the smile on the employee’s face.

Right. The classic one.

So there has to be that continuity in order for your audience to build that confidence and connection with your brand. There are different stages of the consumer cycle. And it usually starts with research. And so from research to advocacy, you need to have consistency for them to be totally bought in. And even at that advocacy stage when they tell their friend, this is awesome, that person needs to see the exact same thing in order for it to not break down.

Same thing in, like, the advertisements that they’re going to be placing or their present set events, which we’ve talked about a little bit, or any of these other things, too. When you’re talking about the consistency, you mean not just the visual but, like, the– again, that overall culture needs to– if they belong there for their brand, they’ve got to be there. And they need to look the part that shows that they belong there.

They need to look it. They need to read it. They need to feel it– smell it.

I mean, Jess brings up a really good point. I think that’s the hardest thing for the small businesses to deal with is that investment into consistency. I mean, yes, you have your investments into these touch points and these physical touch points. But it takes a lot of time and energy to get to that consistency level.

If you’re Small Business A, and you’re thinking, well, gosh, Starbucks is– God, they’re just so great; they do all this stuff. Well, that stuff didn’t happen overnight. Yes, they had some resources to put into that. But it took a lot of time and a lot of thinking and a lot of just emotional and personal investment into really, in a sense, grinding out, like, what that line is– that consistency line is– and then applying it, and applying it, and applying it and not waving from it.

So when a situation arises and somebody says, oh, that’s not your brand. You don’t do that. Somebody goes, well, this is the line that we drew. This is in line with our brand, and we’re going to stick to that.

I think that’s the hardest part for anybody in terms of a brand is that you’re just so tempted to change things and to be as fresh as you can possibly be. But the most reassuring thing for the consumer is that you’re going to be this consistent voice throughout time.

Beautiful. Well put. OK, well, I think we’re about ready to start wrapping this up. So I am going to put the screws on you guys here. And I’m going to ask you for your top three takeaways, the way we like to round out the show. So how would you sum up what we should be remembering from this conversation today on brands?

Brands are not logos.

Number one.

They are experience and emotion.

Yeah, I would say brand is certainly– for me, it’s an attitude, and it’s a way of being. I mean, I go back to my class years, and my professor was saying, think of a brand as a person, and what do you want that person to be? How do you want them to act? And where do you see them going in the world?

Another point I think I would want to emphasize is when sitting down and really focusing in on your vision of your brand, allowing yourself– well, allowing your brand to evolve, so setting up rules that don’t trap you but allow you to evolve with time and how your product might be evolving or even your audience.

Your brand, your business, your propositions are going to change over time. But you need to have that one true core element that remains the same throughout all of that so that you can weigh all those decisions against what that core statement is so that you know you’re making the right decision and you’re not just flying off the handle, so to speak.

Jess and Ali, thank you so much for the discussion today on brands!

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In today’s show, Meghan talks with Michelle Liljedahl, the Director of Shared Service Marketing at Audigy Group and Stratus Dental. Get to know Michelle, her family back home in Korea, as well as some pro-golf tips!

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